Hey Freak!

Damn, I've got a lot to say today, huh. Well, not really, but here goes anyway. Two unrelated news stories that both got me riled up today...

So. Let's get this straight.

Virgin Mary on a Cheese sandwich - it's a sign from God! It's a miracle!

Water stain on a Chicago underpass - oh yeah, that's totally the Virgin Mary! It's a miracle! Praise God!

The new Pope - he's got horns? It's gotta be an optical illusion.

Now, please. I'm sorry, but if you believe the first two, then you gotta believe that the new Pope is the Devil.

OK, one more news item that really, really frosts me - Spear fisherman is arrested, 200-pound black sea bass shot and killed off La Jolla. Now, the Black Sea Bass is a protected species. The area where it was killed? An aquatic preserve.

So, these fucks who killed the fish are pleading ignorance. Please. They knew where to go to catch it (the A buoy), they knew you could just swim up to it, and they knew it wouldn't fight back. It was in a (relatively) closed space (the reserve). A proverbial fish in a barrel. Dude. How fucked up is that?

Honestly? I think the fuckers should be executed. Fuck that $1000 fine. This is a protected species. If dumbfuck is willing to kill one of the last of a (totally non-dangerous) species, then he should be killed himself. Seriously. Think of it this way... if I went to the Zoo and shot a panda bear, you think I'd get just a $1000 fine?

Omid Adhami should be executed. End of story.

So, you're comparing shooting a fish with killing a human?

Niiiice.

why yes, i am.

there are 5 billion + people on earth. there are a coupla hundred or thousand of those fish.

and really, what gives a human more of a right to live than that fish?

let's think about this. the guy kills for sport (it's not like he was gonna feed his starving family with it). what did the fish do to him? nothing.

sorry, but i don't hold people in such high regard. especially not stupid people.

It scares me a tiny bit when you and I think the same way. The guy deserves a public caning, at least. What a rotten, sadistic little fuck.

Mikey, I got your back.

First, let's take his position: he didn't know it was a reserve, he didn't know the fish was endangered, and he was scared. Let's break this down.

Evidence 1: He had scuba gear and a spear. He was obviously going fishing.

Evidence 2: In California, you must have a fishing license to fish (http://www.dfg.ca.gov/mrd/permits.html). Therefore, you've made some effort already. If he had no license, he's looking at a fine just for being out there. Second, in California, and on the CDFW webpage, you can get a map of where you are and aren't allowed to ocean fish (http://www.dfg.ca.gov/mrd/index_regs.html). He was near a buoy, which is used as a water navigation device for marking boundaries and locations on a map. Anyone out in a boat is duty-bound to be able to map navigate (especially in the ocean).

Evidence 3: he claims he didn't know what the fish was. Bullshit. Granted, I'll be working for OR Fish & Wildlife this summer, so I know a little something about fish, but not much. I can't identify the fish exactly, but I know it's not harmful from the face, mouth, and fin configuration. Also, if this fish has indeed been friendly with swimmers, there is nothing to indicate that this fish would move in a threatening manner.

Evidence 4: he had a spear. Spears are used for larger fish or for reef fishing. Either of those are illegal in the area he was in, which he should have known since he should have had a license AND access to the California Ocean Sports Fishing Regulation Map AND the ability to read a map.

If you're going to be a fisherman, you have a responsibility to be informed about the areas you're fishing in. This sea bass certainly doesn't look like a shark, and I don't believe it looks like any other hazardous fish in the area.

These men deserve not only a LARGE fine but whatever else the judge throws at them. A significant amount of jail time is not out of the question, especially if they can prove that the men have fished illegaly before. Depending on how this plays out, I may actually support a death penalty. Endangered and threatened species need to be taken care of and seriously understood if we have a hope of saving them.

To the second commenter:

No, he is not comparing shooting a fish with shooting a human. Nowhere in this post did Mikey say "oh, it's like they killed a person!" Instead, mikey was pointing out that this is an extremely valuable fish species, and poaching this species should receive a heavy penalty.

Mikey, you are right on track when you say that we have more people than fish, and that these fish are just as important. This guy was definitely killing for sport or to make a lot of money, and that's a damn shame. I don't even have words to express the anger I feel at his actions; life is a sacred thing that shouldn't be taken lightly for any animal, not just for humans. The ecosystem works in as-yet-unexplained ways, and we have no way of knowing how the eradication of species affects life on this planet. Even we are interconnected with animals via the food chain, global movement, and just the sheer fact that we live on this earth. Respect is due for these creatures that have an evolutionary history much longer than ours.

I live in Chicago and that whole Virgin Mary in the underpass is such a joke! They had all night vigils and people praying to a water stain!!! I'm sorry, but fanatacism in any form kinda freaks me out and this is no exception. Besides, it didn't even look like Mary. Not even in the least.

oh, and if you went to the zoo to shoot a panda bear, I bet you'd get assasinated by some crazed maniac before you ever went to trial.

No, I don't have to believe that the Pope is the devil because of that photo and because I believe in the sewer water Virgin Mary incident. They are not the same.

Now, if you show me a sweet potato or rutabaga that grew into an image of the Pope with horns, then I'd believe he was the devil.

The fish killer, lets wait till he has been tried before we lynch him. He does look guilty and most likely is..but I see room for reasonable doubt with only the news report of the incident.

And while I think a year in jail and $2000 fine is getting off light, I think the death penalty is absurd. There used to be a death penalty for poaching protected wildlife and it was thought outrageous of the rulers who imposed those sentances.

Someone else said the stain looked like a coochie. And yeah, the people here just went nuts over it. **wondering how I can create something like this and capitalize on it**

That Virgin Mary thing reminded me of the Simpsons episode where Homer tries to put a scarecrow up in his yard. Without the body on it, it looked like a cross, so, naturally, Flanders and his kids ran outside and started praying to it.

Equally humorous.

Oh, and if you're not killing a fish for food or research, you're committing murder. My two cents.

It'd be easy to turn this into a debate about the morality of fishing/hunting, but it doesn't even need to go that far. And, any real sportsman (be she a hunter or a fisherwoman) would be outraged at the total disregard this man had for the law, let alone for the preservation of a species. I'm not as informed about the requirements for fishing out there or about the equipment a reef diver would have, but I do know my fish - and anyone who spends anytime in the water could tell A from B. I don't think we need to kill the guy - but maybe shoot him in the leg with his own spear gun?

I don't see what the big deal is with people believing they see an image of someone they feel brings hope and love to the world on a wall, regardless of whether it's been created due to a water/salt stain, or whatever. I mean, what's the harm? If you don't believe it, why make fun of those who do?

And I hope that fisherman gets what he has coming to him. 'Cause that just seems very "fishy" to me. (I'm SORRY! Someone had to say it!)

Dudes... Yes the guy was wrong for killing the fish. I believe he should have known better, he fucked up and he should pay for his crimes and pay more than just a grand fine...but seriously executing him? So humans are no longer a protected species? What if this guy was your brother or your father or your son? Even if he went to the zoo and shot a panda, taking his life for an act against an animal would still be wrong.

It was a FISH people. Not a baby or an old lady he shot. Excuse my sorry ass if I regard human life more valuable than an ALMOST extinct FISH. Call me a bleeding heart liberal I guess.

I just find it odd how for the most part you have always made posts claiming your liberal views, etc al. but here you were sharing a distinctly conservative viewpoint regarding a human execution AKA the death penalty.

yeah, it was a fish. but it's been around for longer than he has, and as far as i know, it's never killed for sport. so tell me why that guy's life is more important... it is because he's part of the human race? that's not enough for me. just because he's human doesn't mean that he's more entitled to live, and more importantly, kill indiscriminately.

humans don't need to be a protected species. everything else needs to be protected from us.

that man is not a sportsman by any stretch of the word. he's an idiot. he should know the rules, have a license and be familiar with the fish before going out. everyone knows about the preserve. if you don't, you shouldn't be going out without getting educated first. what a dumbass.

aitch, valuing human life over the life of other animals is not really a bleeding heart liberal value, I'm sorry to say. It's really not in either camp. What I can say is that if you don't value the life of animals and don't respect them, you've lost a lot. The earth works as an interconnected unit, and no one knows how many animals we can kill before it all goes into a tailspin.

Naw, I agree with what you are saying in a sense Mikey and Leah that we humans iz fizzucked up and we think we so better than any other race including non-humans, but I do think that the human race is more valuable than any other race. I mean a fish isn't even a mammal, (is it?) so come on now, what you said is still pretty harsh.

Do you really devalue yourself as a human? I mean we all make mistakes, he made his. What of you made one like that? It is possible you know. Should YOU be executed?

I'm just saying. I mean I really have no ill will I did get you some measuring cups and shit.

Ethnocentrism.

i do not devalue myself as a human... i've always held that humans are no more important than animals.

so tell me. why are humans more important? i'd like to hear your reasoning.

Because we are rational. We are a substance, corporeal, living, sentient. We are compound of body and soul. We are masters of subjects like mathematics, chemistry, anatomy, biology, history, American literature and so on. We have morals and ethics...We can experience deep emotions such as love, loss, grief, pain, pride, self-worth and so on and so forth.

Once that prescious fish meets what man has already accomplished then I might consider it's life equal to ours.

We also can cause the extinction of animals, destroy the environment and pretty much self-destruct.

Name another species that does that as well as we do.

In the animal kingdom, we suck.

sorry, Aitch, but your "standards" are totally human-centric.

Because we are rational. We are a substance, corporeal, living, sentient.
so is the fish. as far as i know. the fish didn't break any laws.

We are compound of body and soul
define "soul". and yanno what? whatever your definition is, you can't prove that the fish doesn't have one. just because we can't communicate with it doesn't mean it's not smart.

We are masters of subjects like mathematics, chemistry, anatomy, biology, history, American literature and so on
blah blah blah. the fish is the master of his own world. are we masters of breathing underwater? of hearing underwater? how do you know what the fish knows? the fish probably knows the history of the ocean, the weather patterns over the ocean, how to stay away from sharks, and so on. basically, your argument here is "it's not human, so it's not as important as a human."

We have morals and ethics...
humans kill for fun. humans kill for sport. humans pollute the globe and strip away its natural resources. black sea bass do NOT do that. score one for the fish.

We can experience deep emotions such as love, loss, grief, pain, pride, self-worth and so on and so forth
once again, how can you know that fish don't have emotions? how do you know what they do and don't feel? you don't. period. maybe it expresses these emotions in ways that we can't understand.

basically, your argument is "it's not human, so we're better." try using some global standards rather than human standards:

fish don't kill for fun. fish don't pollute the oceans and the skies with toxins. fish have been around for literally millions of years, living in peace.

can humans say the same? no.

i can vouch for animals feeling loss, grief and pain. i just lost one of my beloved cats to a blood clot that paralyzed him. he cried out in pain for some time before we woke up and took him to the vet. because there was no hope of him recovering, we chose to put him to sleep. now our other cats, who lived with him for 7 years, walk around crying for him, missing him. they know he's gone. you can't tell me that animals can't experience emotion because that's a bunch of bullshit.

Emotions seldom come pure, in isolation from other emotions. In people, anger and fear, fear and love, love and shame, shame and sorrow often converge in particular situations. Animals may also experience a mix of emotions. Perhaps a dolphin mother who carries her dead baby around with her for several days feels both love and sorrow. Jeffrey Moussaieff Masson's book "When Elephants Weep" describes a half-grown elk calf guarding the body of another calf killed by coyotes after the elk herd had moved on. For at least two days the calf straddled the body, aggressively chased coyotes away, and from time to time sniffed and nuzzled the face of the dead calf. Eventually (after coyotes had succeeded in partly eating the body) the calf moved on. The calf may have felt grief; it may have felt lonely for the rest of the herd; it may have felt anger at the coyotes; it may have feared the coyotes. Perhaps it felt love for the dead calf. That feelings may be complex and multifaceted or difficult to interpret does not mean they do not exist.

I stand by my ethnocentrism comment. You can't judge animals through the same paradigms that you judge a human.

I can say that men are better than women because we've mastered the art of creating sperm, but that wouldn't be fair or accurate, would it?

On a global level, the ultimate goal is perpetuation of existence and prosperity. Most animals have been able to find a balance and maintain that perpetuation and prosperity, while, we, masters of literature that we are, have not.

We're very good at what we do. And we do it better than other animals. But that doesn't make us better than anyone.

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